Empowering Personal Growth & Innovation

Allison Netzer: 00:00:00

I thought being in charge meant I was beholden to no one. What it truly means is that I am beholden to everyone. And I think we've all kind of felt that before.

Theme Song: 00:00:09

We're the Bankers Book Club Readings what we do from finance to leadership. We got a banker's view. Bankers Book Club, where ledgers meet literature. Bankers Book Club, Making bankers better. Fred's all about tech.

Erica's digital trends. Jack trained to pros. Allison's expertise never ends. Bankers Bankers Book Club, where ledgers need literature.

Bankers Book Club, Making bankers better. Bankers Book Club, where letters meet literature.

Fred Cadena: 00:01:02

Welcome, everyone, to the very first episode of the Bankers Book Club. I'm Fred Cadena, and I couldn't be more excited to kick this off with my amazing co hosts.

First up, Eric Cook, chief digital strategist at Cook Technology Solutions. Eric, will you tell everybody a little bit about yourself?

Eric Cook: 00:01:19

I certainly can. And nobody really knows Cook Technology Solutions because that's the LLC behind the brand.

Been running an agency since: 2007

I didn't want to go into the bank with my father, but I did, and it was an awesome 15 years.

And now I can't believe I get paid to play on the digital side of the desk with banks from all over the country and do some teaching and speaking and get to hang out with you three lovely people on the launch of our new podcast. So I'm pretty excited.

Fred Cadena: 00:02:17

I'm excited that you're part of it.

And I will tell any of our listeners that are not familiar with the Linked Banker and all you offer, both for free with your happy hours and on the paid side. Definitely, definitely need to check it out after you finish listening to this episode.

Eric Cook: 00:02:32

Absolutely.

Fred Cadena: 00:02:33

Jack. Jack. Next up, Jack Hubbard, founder at the Modern Banker. Jack, you want to tell the audience a little bit about yourself?

Jack Hubbard: 00:02:40

Yes. Thank you, Fred. I'm older than the three of you combined is the first thing here.

Fred Cadena: 00:02:47

I doubt that. I doubt that. Seriously. Eric's pretty old, too.

Jack Hubbard: 00:02:52

Yeah, he is, but he's a lot younger than me, Fred. So I'm a fortunate cancer survivor. I guess that's number one. And to be around here to have some time with you guys is a miracle, actually.

I've had the privilege over 52 years to teach over 80,000 bankers, but on the faculty of 13 banking schools. That's where I met Eric. And as you mentioned, I co founded the Modern Banker. And our goal is very simple.

It's to help bankers understand how to connect LinkedIn to the sales process. And most of them don't do that very well.

And one of the things I'm really most proud of and having the best and most fun with is Jack Rants with Modern Bankers, a podcast that's on every Wednesday. And I've had some amazing guests on, none better than Eric Cook and Allison Netzer. So great to be here, Fred.

Eric Cook: 00:03:46

You just earned your $20.

Fred Cadena: 00:03:47

Great to have you.

Allison Netzer: 00:03:48

Yeah, there's.

Fred Cadena: 00:03:49

Yeah, yeah. And I'm, I'm, I'm a big fan of the Jack Renz podcast and my, one of my life goals is to eventually earn an invitation to be a guest on that as well.

So I'll keep my fingers crossed. I'm not quite in the Eric and Allison leagues yet.

And last but certainly not least, Alison Netzer, CMO and best selling author of a book coincidentally called Think Like a Brand, Not a Bank. And another book, A Year of Thinking Differently. Allison, please tell the audience a little bit about yourself.

Allison Netzer: 00:04:24

Sure.

Well, I am younger, a little bit than Jack, but I've been around technology for about 25 years, including leading marketing at Kony, which was acquired by Timonos, and also as the CMO of Nimbus. My goal has always been to learn as much as I teach. So being in a book club like this is really an amazing opportunity to, to do that.

So thanks for allowing me to be a part of it.

Fred Cadena: 00:04:51

We're excited to have.

Eric Cook: 00:04:52

Yeah, I was just going to say we need to make sure that we allow for you. If you want me to turn the tables and act as.

Allison Netzer: 00:04:58

Yes, yes.

Eric Cook: 00:05:00

Tell us, who are you and what do you do?

Allison Netzer: 00:05:03

How did you get here?

Fred Cadena: 00:05:04

Well, that's a great question. I appreciate you asking me, Eric. So I am, I'm Frank. I spent vast majority of my professional career working in and around financial services.

I like to tell people that's really the only thing that I know. I spent a little over 15 years on the client side of the business, working primarily in the wealth and broker dealer space.

Worked for a company called Options Express, which was a pioneer in online trading technology.

Had a really fantastic run there, was with them through going public, was with them through acquiring and bringing in a number of other online brands and eventually was there through the acquisition by Charles Schwab and helped with the transition and integration of Options Express into the Schwab portfolio. Since then, I spent the last 10 years primarily in consulting.

One of the things that I enjoy doing the most at Options Express in Schwab was working with technology and leveraging technology to create better customer and user experiences.

And I did that in consulting for the last 10 years, really leveraging Salesforce and other related technologies, helping financial institutions, including a ton of banks and credit unions, bring in those and other technologies to improve how they're working with their customers and onboarding people and really just growing relationships in a satisfying and profitable way. Now I am at a company called Veracast.

Many of our listeners probably know Veracast as Harlan Clark and really helping us with our product development roadmap and bringing really powerful and robust marketing solutions to banks and credit unions across the country and having a ton of fun doing it. So I do like Jack and Eric, also have a podcast, Banking on Disruption.

Eric is a frequent contributor, weekly contributor, as a matter of fact, to our Quick Takes segment, as one of our roundtable participants. And I've been lucky enough to have Jack on as a guest as well. So excited to be part of this group and just really excited about our mission as well.

For me, you know, exploring books has always been a way to ignite creativity.

One of the principles I think we all talked about when we decided to get together and start this group was we didn't just want to make it banking books. Right.

We wanted to make it books that we could bring into the conversation and really kick off our creative juices and figure out what lessons can we take from that book and apply it to what we're so passionate about doing all the time. And so just as a little bit of an initiative or a little bit of an introduction to the concept, Eric, I want to kick it off to you.

What drove your desire to jump in and launch this book club with the three of us?

Eric Cook: 00:08:06

Yeah.

So first off, I want to rewind a little bit and you said that's something related to financial services and that's all that, you know, I'm going to dispute that because I've heard you talk about cigars on episodes and so I think you know quite a bit about that. And you also are pretty sharp dresser and I know we have the same affection for a certain brand of rather colorful and conversational shirts.

Give yourself a little more credit than that.

Fred Cadena: 00:08:37

This is, in fact, Eric Robert Graham that I'm wearing today.

I will also say for the listeners that are interested, I may I'm a big aficionado of bourbon and other whiskies and know quite a bit about that as well. And my wine knowledge is extensive, so happy to talk about those. I was going to say concepts as well.

Eric Cook: 00:08:56

He is very much a renaissance man and when I hear him talk of those things I feel very inadequate. But you know, we all have our strengths.

The question that you originally asked me I started this year and in the digital marketing space, certainly there is no shortage of knowledge being thrown at your brain on a continual basis. And certainly I felt like I was drinking from the fire hose a few years ago and web3 and the metaverse and NFTs were all the rage.

That has quickly died down and artificial intelligence is now what I'm trying to just keep up with.

But I had thought that there are other things in the world that I need to do a better job of paying attention to and had always thought I've never been much of a reader, but I enjoy audiobooks and podcasts, watching YouTube videos, and as much as it probably chagrins the traditional reader, I actually do get quite a bit of information from Instagram Reels and TikToks because the algorithm has me figured out. And so it's not me trying to learn the latest dance or trend, it's where am I getting all of my information.

But I wanted to do something to make myself a little bit more intelligent and discipline myself to do more reading.

And when the idea came up of hey, let's start a book club, figured that would be a good motivator to put it out in the public eye to commit myself to reoccurring conversations like this, to not let the three of you down and to expand and figure out different ways beyond just listening to an audiobook. Actually pulled the trigger on a little Kindle device recently and trying to figure out good reads and all this other fun stuff.

So I'm hoping that Allison will be able to provide some insights because I would like to continue the learning process to make it as efficient and productive as possible, but also support my on the Glow on the glow on the go. I'm having some lip gloss flashbacks there. For those of you that weren't on the pre call, we'll just weave that into the conversation.

We've got lots of fun stuff to talk about on this podcast, but just trying to figure out ways that I can when I'm out and about still consume, but ways that I can do a better job of retaining that information and putting it to use through tools and technology, which I use a lot and looking from learning from you and then all of our dear listeners or viewers suggestions and ideas that you've had, coming up with ways to consume and retain and put the content that you're reading and gobbling up to good use. So that's, that's kind of my. My mo.

Fred Cadena: 00:11:43

Yeah, no, I love all of that. And I think, you know, you definitely foreshadowed some of the things that we're to get to in this episode.

Talking about how do we really all, with our busy schedules, get to even read some of the books that we, that we get to read as well as, you know, how do we make things actionable, which is a big thing for me. Allison, love to know. What are you hoping to get out of being part of the book club?

Allison Netzer: 00:12:09

Yeah, so, I mean, I love being around readers, around people who want to be better readers. You know, when you're, when you're reading something together, talking about reading, you get to build something in common. Right.

By reading the same book, but also the exact same time, gaining different perspective on that same content. Which is kind of an amazing framework if you think about it. Right. So you're building something in common while getting different perspectives.

It's an amazing framework to use in your life and in your work. And I mean, who wouldn't want to be on a podcast with you, Eric and Jack? I mean, that was really reason number one. But I'm excited about it.

I think we're going to uncover a lot of cool tips to help people become more readery and then also, like Eric was saying, to really value and be able to use what we read.

We spend so much time consuming content and we're all in kind of in and around the banking industry, but we don't push ourselves for an ROI on that time spent. And we should. So. But you know, I'd love to talk a little bit more about that as we get through this episode.

Fred Cadena: 00:13:23

Yeah, I love that.

I love the idea of figuring out not just how to make things actionable, but then to look back and say, what did that really do to move the needle for me this year? Like, did that really have an impact or not? Would love to dig in on that a little bit more as well. Jack. Certainly.

Definitely want your opinion on what made you decide to be a part of this crew.

Jack Hubbard: 00:13:44

Well, I'll quote Lou Grant from the last Mary Tyler Moore Show. I treasure you people and I really do mean that.

You know, you all honor me by even asking me to be a small part of this, but I'll go back to my high school age situation. I read two books in high school in four years. I hated reading.

I read two books, Catcher in the Rye, which was required reading at sophomore year at St. Edward Central Catholic High School in Elgin, Illinois. And I thought, wow, that's a pretty cool book.

And Ball Four by Jim Boughton, because I'm a huge baseball fan. Beyond that, I didn't read anything and it kind of went through college.

When I got into radio and tv, I thought, well, I can just talk my way through pretty much anything. And so I read very rarely. But then, you know, I got into business and my wife. This is before Amazon got me a book that really changed my life.

in business, this is back in: 2000

Myer and Hubbard, I needed to impart that knowledge to bankers. And so I'll say one of my goals for this program is actionable throughput.

You know, when I teach at banker school, I ask what sales book you're reading, and I don't get very many hands at all. Bankers aren't readers. So I agree with all of you. I think action is really important. But I want there to be a throughput.

It would be terrific if bankers, as a result of this program, would actually start a book club in their bank. And I've seen banks that have done this incredibly successfully.

And we'll certainly talk about that probably more as the program goes on, but I'm thrilled to be here.

And I think the other thing to think about, if you're a banker, professional development, career development, and banker development are all excellent reasons to read. And I love Eric's comment. You know, if you. There are three different kinds of learners.

There's audio learners, visual learners, and experiential learners. And if you're an auditory learner, you can learn a lot from listening to books and podcasts and things like that. I'm not.

I have to read a physical book, and I'm kind of old school that way.

But I think it's so important for bankers to be able to do one of those things, whether it's listen or read or, you know, on a PDF or whatever it is to be able to improve their career and thus improve their own bank.

Fred Cadena: 00:16:28

Yeah, no, I love all that, and I love the different types of styles. I think we'll definitely talk about that as well.

You really played into one of the things that was driving my passion behind wanting to get this group going, which is magnifying my effort. So I'm like you, Jack.

I definitely hope that a lot of our listeners take this and either mirror the books that we're following or come up with their own list of books and start a book club at their own institutions. You know what really kind of got me going was two things.

One, I saw a post that you shared, Jack, at the beginning of the year with a list of books that I said, you know what? That's really a great list. That's inspiring. And I'd probably add five or ten to that. And I think that's kind of how it got started.

The other is this is I've always found books to be a thoughtful gift.

I don't know if people that received the gift think it's sort of the same way, but I think back to a lot of clients I've had over the years, people that I've worked with, employees that I've, you know, I've read something or I've remembered something that I've read that applied to a meeting that we had. Now I'll just go ahead and buy the book and I'll throw a quick note in it and send it off.

And I hope, I like to think that that's had a positive impact on people. And I just wanted a way to kind of force multiply that a little bit. Right.

If I could take some of what I've gotten out of a book and brought some much more intelligent people together to share what they've gotten out of the book and we can put that out there in a way that people can consume it. I think that that's really my goal in getting this going. So I'm really excited to have this group together.

Now, Jack, I know probably more than anybody else on the podcast, I notice that you're almost always sharing, week over week, a book on LinkedIn that you've read and some of the key takeaways, which are fantastic. I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit here and I want you to answer, what is the most impactful book that you've read this year and why?

Jack Hubbard: 00:18:34

I'll answer, but you brought up a really interesting point and I wish that bankers would adopt exactly what you've said.

Why don't bankers buy a bunch of books and there are a million of them out there and give them to their bankers to use as leave behinds on really key client prospect and center of influence calls? I don't get it. It's very inexpensive. Why do we continue to do this? Foolishness of leaving collateral and annual reports. There's a place for that.

Fred Cadena: 00:19:09

But a lot of the round file.

Jack Hubbard: 00:19:11

No, there are. And I don't want to demean anybody because Allison and Eric, that's their job. And I get that.

But there are times to do it and times to do it, and so I'm glad you brought that up. So I do read a sales book a week. And I've always adopted this horrible habit ever since I read Charlie's book, to just call the author.

And so I get the book, I call the author or I hear about the book and I call the author and I say, hey, Alison, you've written one of the most amazing books I've ever read. Could you send me a copy? I'd love to have you as a guest on my show. And I read the book. I think it's unfortunate.

And a lot of people that are on my show, including Allison, said, you know, I really respect the fact that you read my book. I think that's the whole concept. But unfortunately people don't. They read the liner notes and that's about it. So I do read a sales book a week.

t one is a very early book in: 2024

This man is an amazing, amazing author. And he talks about three key things in your life. He talks about growth, grit, and grace.

And he took this book from about 150 interviews that he had done on his podcast. Jane Goodall give you the little idea in this book, Jane Goodall wrote the foreword. And so you know Jane Goodall, pretty amazing. So great book.

The other one that I really like, and I'm about three quarters of the way through, and I'm sure all of you have read is Banking on Change with James Robert Lay. If either of you are going to talk about that or any of you going to talk about that, I won't steal any of your thunder.

But I view it as not just a banker book on exponential growth, it's a personal growth book. So those are two of my favorites. And I'll pass the baton over to one of the others to have you talk about the book you're reading.

Allison Netzer: 00:21:26

Yeah, sure.

Fred Cadena: 00:21:27

Allison, you want to take it?

Allison Netzer: 00:21:28

Yeah, of course. And I'll break the rules. Since Jack did, it's hard to pick just one.

Nonfiction wise, I really love a book I read earlier this year called From Strength to Strength by Arthur C. Brooks.

He has this concept in the book of fluid intelligence, like when we're, we're young and early in our careers and crystallized intelligence that you leverage later in life using a stock of knowledge that you've learned in the past. And it's really framed things up for me at this stage in my career, especially as a, as a marketer. Right.

You're constantly worried about if you're going to be able to come up with another hit song. So this, the book set me at ease and actually helped me to value kind of the stage that I'm in.

And then fiction and I try to alternate because I have a really hard time putting down non fiction books. So for fiction, there's a book called Hang the Moon by Jeanette Walls and she's a fantastic author and it's a fiction book.

But she has a line in there that stuck with me that I think also works for leadership, which is, and I wrote, wrote it down here, I thought being in charge meant I was beholden to no one. What it truly means is that I am beholden to everyone. And I think we've all kind of felt that before.

But as we constantly try to bring humility into leadership and into the market, that book really kind of stuck with me. So both of those have been really good ones so far this year.

Fred Cadena: 00:23:02

Yeah, I love that line and I love the idea of reading fiction. I will say that I am guilty of not really reading much fiction.

I think right now, like so far to this year, probably ten to one nonfiction to fiction.

And honestly most of the fiction that I've read has been not necessarily like sci fi, kind of like just for fun, like not anything that I expect to get anything out of. And I definitely, definitely need to learn that lesson. Eric, how about yourself? What do you want to throw in the mix?

Eric Cook: 00:23:39

Well, I get my dose of fiction anytime I hop out to Twitter or X and just read all of the stuff people are making up over there. So I know that's not a book, but hearing that, thank God, sparked that thought.

So you know, heaven knows what you're going to find when you jump out there.

But so that being said, and I feel like I need to come up with two and fortunately I've actually read more than two books this year, which is two more than I read last year, which is good, I would say one just because and this was the one that I originally selected as my go to.

And I'm not pandering to my other co host here, but I absolutely fell in love with Allison and Liz's book Think Like a Brand, Not a Bank, and I've had the good pleasure of having both of them join us on a link. Banker Mastermind couldn't get both of them at the same time because somebody got sick, but it gave a whole episode to each person, which was great.

Allison Netzer: 00:24:44

And that was the plan all along.

Eric Cook: 00:24:46

I figured it probably was, but. And I debated about James Robert lay's first book, but the lesson that came out of Think Like a Brand resonated with me.

Being a banker for so many years and now being on the other side, being able to have that conversation and try to articulate what is it that you really stand for. Our people make the difference. We've been around for 100 years. Heritage is our core value. We are committed to the community.

Those are all really great statements, but how does that live up to your brand? And I often will share Simon Sinek's Golden Circle and put the Y right in the middle.

I don't care what you do or how you do it, why you're doing what you do gives me an emotional connection. And there are so many amazing examples.

I don't want to steal the thunder because spoiler alert, that might very well be the first one that we're going to officially review here on the Bankers Book Club. But I love that.

And to your point, Jim Jack, I've never done this before with an author, but after I read that, I immediately tried and was lucky in my attempt to connect with both of those very amazing women. And we're lucky to have one of them here on the book club with us as a co host.

So I'm really excited to dive into that because I have referred it, I've given it out, I've shared it to Fred, to your point, and just really excited for that episode. Coming soon to a podcast near you.

The other one that I really enjoy and I have a tremendous amount of respect for, Anne Handley, is she has a book everybody writes and it's kind of a revamp where she's got some digital stuff that she's worked in with social media for everybody rewrites.

And even though I listened to the audio and she did the intro but didn't read the entire book, I could hear her voice in the voice talents voice the entire book.

I don't want to say that we're really good friends, but if I saw her in a grocery store, we'd give each other a hug and we see each other at social media Marketing World. And I just have so much respect for her.

And in that book about Everybody Writes, it tells the story, really, of how everyone needs to share their story and to be able to be comfortable communicating and connecting with others on an emotional level. And she exemplifies that her speech this year, she did a keynote at Social Media Marketing World.

And I'm not ashamed to say it as a big burly man, that I had tears in my eyes when she finished telling her story about someone that created content and was writing their social story and connecting with folks and the sanitation and water treatment. Can you believe it? And when she gave the punchline, she started off with a bunch of Barbie references and was all adorned in pink.

And the message that she brought home on that literally shook me to the core. And I can't not get that out of my mind. I think I've even talked about that on episodes and other opportunities to share.

But I really enjoyed her book. Everybody writes and it tells you that anybody can be an author or a publisher to be able to tell their story and to believe in yourself. And it was.

It was absolutely amazing.

Jack Hubbard: 00:28:20

Yeah. And I'll say also that as an author myself, one of the things that I respect is variety.

ay, but it was not written in: 2024

And you're Thinking Differently by Allison Netzer. You gotta get a copy and read it.

Allison Netzer: 00:29:02

Thank you, Jack. I appreciate that.

Fred Cadena: 00:29:05

I love that. And that is on my. On my To Read list. So I guess I'll follow everybody else's mold and pick two.

I'm not going to pick a third like Jack just did, but I'll keep it to two.

Eric Cook: 00:29:15

Jack, you are such an overachiever, it's not even funny.

Fred Cadena: 00:29:21

I'll break the rules in this way. Although I didn't state it, I said, you know, two books that you read this year didn't necessarily have to come out this year.

And neither of the books that I read that I'm going to reference came out this year. And actually neither of them did. I read for the first time this year. They're both books that I've read.

Well, the first one I've only read once before this year.

And I'll show the Audible Thinking Fast and Slow by Kahneman And I'll tell you what made me want to reread this was the sad, unfortunate passing of Kahneman earlier this year. And when that happened, I'm like, you know what? This is a book that I think about all the time. I reference a lot.

Maybe not directly, but I reference the ideas in the book a lot.

And I read it over 10 years ago when it first came out and I actually read it and then I read it and I audibled it at the same time and we'll get into kind of like techniques. But I found it a little bit ironic in that the book, if you haven't read it, I definitely recommend it.

It talks about the two different ways that people think, the kind of quick gut check emotional decisions people make and then the slower, more methodical things and how understanding that about yourself and how understanding that about people that you work with and interact with just makes it a lot easier for you to understand what's happening in systems of communications and, and systems of decision making. But I found it ironic that it had been 10 years since I read it. I probably wasn't even thinking the right way about the book.

Like, I think there were just a lot of concepts that were in the book that I had created mental shortcuts around or other people's work that were kind of influenced by it kind of leaked their way in. So I wanted to read it as a way to just kind of refresh myself on what the content was and what the real key takeaways are with the book.

And I think that's something that I've done with other books. This book, I will warn you, is not a quick read. It was a 20 hour plus audible book. If I, if I put it on my bookshelf, I'd have to reinforce it.

It's a large, it's a large long read, but it's definitely a read that's worth it. The other one I'll throw out there is a quick read. It's a book called Always Be Qualifying.

It is a book on Medpic and I've spent, like I said, the last 10 years or so in consulting, you know, kind of all around leveraging technology, much of which is sold as, you know, X as a service platform, as a service software, as a service. In MEDPIC is a sales qualification framework that's used extensively in the blank as a service and kind of cloud world.

It's something that as a revenue leader I have stood up at several organizations and recently introduced the concept at Veracast. And as part of putting together the training around doing that.

I said, you know, I want to go back and refresh myself on some of the core concepts from one of the sources. Great book. It's about a three hour listen thin book if you want to read it. And I just think, you know, for me, I'm a big believer in the framework.

I think that a lot of times, whether it's in services or in banking, people spend a lot of time chasing things that aren't going to happen.

And I think just being very honest with yourself about is this a deal, what are advantages, how are we going to win, what's our permission to win here and how is this deal going to get across the line?

I can't underline enough how being honest about that and focusing in on where you really can win is going to move the needle on people in making their annual goals.

So definitely, if you're not familiar with Medpic, and I think it's definitely a concept that is less well known in banking, definitely recommend picking that up and giving it a read. So those are, those are my two and my little bit of cheating on.

Allison Netzer: 00:33:36

How I picked good stuff.

Fred Cadena: 00:33:39

So curious. Next. And I shared a couple of mine, the Audible book being one of them. But I'll start with Allison.

We all have super busy schedules, so I'm curious about how you approach reading books, consuming books, and fitting it in with everything else that you've got going on.

Allison Netzer: 00:33:59

Yeah, that's a good question. So I borrowed. I think we're all probably familiar with James Clear's Atomic Habits or kind of the Microhabits.

So he has the concept of habit stacking, right? So if there's something you already do, tack something on to it. And so I use habit sacking to read more. So we all scroll on our phones, right?

So I have the Kindle app on my phone when I'm bored and ready to scroll and check out. I do, but I do so with an ebook, right? And it's synced with my Kindle so I can read some on my phone and it changes it on my Kindle.

There's also an amazing app called Readwise Reader, which is maybe not the easiest name to say, but Google it. Readwise Reader. It's an amazing app.

It's one of those apps that does it where it's, you know, everything's sort of blacked out except for what you're reading. So there's no ads, there's no menus or anything to distract you. But it's great for ebooks.

It's also great for PDFs maybe for long articles that you know, you don't have time to read or read with intention on your laptop.

So yeah, anytime I'm scrolling or reading dinner or excuse me, fixing dinner while reading, I do so you know, on my phone and just, I just know I'm going to pick up my phone so I might as well pick it up for something like that.

Fred Cadena: 00:35:24

I love that. I also love that you can cook. That you can cook at the same time.

Allison Netzer: 00:35:28

I. I can. I can.

Fred Cadena: 00:35:30

I can. Yes, I can cook and I can read. I don't think I could do them at the same time.

Allison Netzer: 00:35:35

Well, so I didn't say I cooked well. And I also have 7 and 10 year old boys, so really I'm stirring macaroni and I'm microwaving chicken nuggets.

So I mean cooking may be an overstatement, but I definitely read while I'm preparing the food. A couple more tips. I think making peace that audiobooks count. Far too many people use the I'm not into books excuse. So just make peace with it.

Audiobooks are books too. The other thing with Readwise is all of your ebook and article highlights are in one place.

So if you're highlighting on a Kindle or highlighting an article, it all goes into one place and they use it. They craft a pretty nifty daily email that really suckers you into a reading rabbit hole, which is the best rabbit hole to go down to.

So I'm a big fan of that and I think the other tip I have is don't sign up for reading challenge or a goal. And it sounds a little strange, but developing or reconnecting with a love of reading is what you're after.

Deciding to reconnect with that is one decision that saves you 100 decisions.

So however you love to do it, whatever's going to make you love it, if it's on your phone, if it's a book, if, if it's an audio book, that's really what you're trying to do, not get to a certain number of books. If you don't retain it, you might as well not have picked it up anyway. So those are some tips I have.

Fred Cadena: 00:37:06

No, that's great. And that last one is super powerful. You know, don't churn through it just to churn through it like that.

That doesn't do anybody any good except maybe the author from a royalties perspective. But other than that it doesn't doesn't help anybody else.

Allison Netzer: 00:37:22

Yes, download book now, but I'll just tack on one other Thing is, unlike what our teachers told us in school, you don't have to finish a book. You don't have to finish every book. If it's not good for you, don't finish it. Take what you need out of it and leave the rest.

And sometimes that means literally leaving the rest of the book unread. That's okay. Some books are better off being emails or blogs, and that's okay, right?

Get what you need out of it, and you don't have to finish every one of it. If it's not providing value, put it down, it's okay. So I think that's another thing just from our time at school. You don't have to finish it.

And quite frankly, Jack can probably relate to this.

I mean, the best parts of the book are usually at the beginning anyway, unless it's a mystery, because after a while the author gets a bit fatigued as well, so. And starts to repeat themselves. So if you can get through the first half of a book and get some value out of it, I think that still counts.

Fred Cadena: 00:38:22

So, yeah, no, I love that. One of my.

One of my rules of thumbs and audible still does it for me, even though I probably am above their expected redemption line is I'll get about 10%, 15% through a book, and if it's not working for me, I'll stop and then I'll email or I'll go through the app and I'll say, hey, this one's not working, and they give me the credit back. It works a little bit less well if I've picked up something at a local bookstore or something. But I definitely love that tip.

Eric, Jack, how about you guys? What helps you get through so many books?

Jack Hubbard: 00:39:01

Well, I have this horrible Catholic guilt, and I feel better that Allison helped me with that. I always feel like if I buy a book or I get a book from an author, I should read it cover to cover, and a lot of times I'll do it. But.

But I always remember Sister Mary Halina, OP Order of Preachers in 8th grade, said, if you're going to read a book and you want to put the book down, at least read the first 30 pages because there's a lot of good stuff. If you think, okay, this is pretty good, I'll read on. If you go, this is awful. And then you can. You can kind of put it down. I'm.

I'm a little different than Allison in that. And it's got to be. I don't know how y'all do it with. With young kids.

And trying to have a career and being a mom or dad and, and then trying to put in a hobby like reading, it's. It's tough to do. So as an empty nester, it's easier for me.

about this, and I started in: 2024

I read an hour a day and it's right after dinner and I won't turn on the TV and I'll sit down and read. And we have a tremendous advantage here in Chicago in that the Chicago Cubs are already out of it. So you don't have to worry about watching the Cubs.

Certainly the White Sox were done a long, long time ago and the Bears don't start till the fall. So I have a real advantage.

Fred Cadena: 00:40:45

Don't worry. They're out of it, too.

Jack Hubbard: 00:40:47

Yeah, I think they probably are already. But I can go on the front porch and I can sit and read for an hour and it's actually quite enjoyable.

And I'll, you know, if the book is really good, I'll go on a little bit longer and if I'm not with it that night, I'll read for 30 minutes.

But I think if you discipline yourself with an atomic habit that says around this time of the day, I'm going to try to put everything aside and I'm going to do some personal growth here. And there's nothing better than reading for that.

Eric Cook: 00:41:20

Yeah, I love that idea.

Fred Cadena: 00:41:21

I love that.

Eric Cook: 00:41:22

Yep. So my. I got two ideas and they're somewhat outside of the book and they can be done.

And I hesitate saying this, but this is a safe space and we're all going to be honest here, they can be done. In lieu of reading the book, I think reading the book helps.

But one of the things that I like is if I read a book and I did this with the GTD David Allen Getting things done. I read that book and a really good podcast that talked about a lot of the principles went on for many episodes.

And I went back and I binge listened to all of that. And so it brought back just reinforcements of things that the book had talked about.

But in the podcast, the host was actually interviewing people that have implemented things in the book. And not everybody does it the same way, I think.

You know, Allison, to your point, you can read the same book and come away with different things, and that's okay. It's how you interpret it. And so as we're reading these books, and I did that with the Think like a brand.

There was a podcast that went along with that of the stories, and some of the people were people that were in the book, and others were people that weren't in the book that just had some interesting things to talk about. And so that helps you better understand the lessons from that particular book, but then get even more ideas. Excuse me, that might be valuable.

The other thing, and you mentioned Atomic Habits.

Last year, Jack, after I introduced you to my good friend PI, I was driving through the Upper Peninsula, and one of the exercises that I did was I asked PI, which is an emotionally intelligent chat AI app that you can use in your phone free. You can create an account and you can see the information on your browser. But I.

I fired up PI, and I said, tell me what you know about the book Atomic Habits. And it brought me back a quick summary. It was stuff that I remembered from the book.

And then I said, can you walk me through maybe some conversation about how I can put some of those habits to work better in my life?

And it went through and it asked me some questions and it said habit stacking, or, you know, some of the other lessons about putting things in close proximity so that when you wake up, you see your clothes, you see your clothes, you want to work out, then you end up working out.

And it gave me the ability to not just regurgitate the information, but through the AI, it was asking me questions and being conversational, and if I gave it an answer that wasn't quite right, yeah, I can see how that could be the case, but maybe you could think of it a different way.

And it wasn't always 100% accurate, but in a car by myself for six hours, it gave me that conversational opportunity to be able to do some dialogue with an AI agent about a book that I had read to help further reinforce what it is that I've learned.

And so that's one of the skills that I'm going to try to take into this, is not just now having a Kindle reader, which makes it a little bit easier and disassociates the dings and the chimes and all the other distractions that exist on the phone, but as I listen to an audiobook, then come back and have a conversation with one of these digital agents to reinforce my learning and understanding of it and how I can use it best. If I was a Banker.

If I was trying to be a better husband, if I wanted to be, you know, taking better care of myself physically and emotionally, how could I take lessons from those books and do that? And so I gave that example recently on a training to retail manager about that exact book.

It's so funny that you mentioned atomic habits and his eyes just lit up because he's going to take that strategy into his next team meeting and walk his staff through that idea. And I said, create a book club, buy that book for everybody, and then come back and discuss it. So, yeah, so those are my two.

Fred Cadena: 00:45:26

No, I love that.

And as excited as I was about potentially having an hour long conversation with you, Eric, where AI did not come up, I'm still going to say that I really like that tip. That's a really awesome tip.

Eric Cook: 00:45:39

We're 46 minutes into the podcast and.

Fred Cadena: 00:45:44

We almost made it. We almost made it.

Eric Cook: 00:45:46

Although I think I did mention AI previously, but it was more in passing. But this was an actual legitimate, real use of it. So thank you for.

Fred Cadena: 00:45:53

Yeah, this. This was front and center.

Eric Cook: 00:45:54

Yeah, exactly.

Fred Cadena: 00:45:55

I. So I do something like what you do in your first tip, but I do it on. On the sorting on the front end.

So when a book comes out and I'm kind of on the bubble about whether or not I want to read it or, you know, I always have a big backlog of stuff that I'm looking to read.

One of the things I'll do is I'll listen to podcasts or other, you know, media where the author is being interviewed and just see, like, does this book sound like something? Does this author's voice sound like something I'd be interested in listening to or reading for five hours, 10 hours, whatever that would be.

I'm sure I've probably missed out on some stuff because not everybody interviews that well. And Jack, to your point, not every interviewer actually reads the book. And so some of the interviews kind of fall flat.

But I found it really helpful in helping me decide.

Okay, is there enough here that it sounds like it's more than just an interview, or did I get all the highlights in this podcast and there's no reason for me to invest the time in reading the rest of the book? As far as reading, you guys kind of covered a lot of the bases. One thing I'll throw out there that you guys did mention, I'm a big fan of Speechify.

Speechify is a paid service. I guess it's AI adjacent, so I'll throw myself under that same AI bus. But you can take anything that does not have digital rights attached to it.

It could be Word document, it could be PDF. It can be a non digital rights ebook. You could upload it and you can have it read to you.

You can download the whole thing as an MP3 if you're listening somewhere that you don't have connectivity or you can have it listen, you can have it read it to you. Connected to the Internet in some really cool voices.

I recently had Snoop Dogg read me Bank's annual report that I didn't want to have to read manually. It's fantastic. It's kind of fun. As somebody that travels a lot this week I happened to be home all five days last week.

I was in three different cities. Lots of plane time, lots of Uber time or rental car time. I like turning as many things as I can into audio for easy consumption.

I'm a big audible user. I'm inspired, Eric, by your Kindle that you flashed up. I have to buy gadgets so I might buy myself a Kindle.

And I'll tell you, maybe one of you has experience. I was never a big fan of the Kindle Read it to you functionality and it's probably been five years since I've used it.

I don't know if it's gotten any better, but it wasn't. It's still terrible. Okay, well that's not a reason to buy it.

Allison Netzer: 00:48:40

No, no. But it's very good for non audio.

Fred Cadena: 00:48:45

For non audio.

And I think one of the things I do remember liking about the Kindle was the ability to quickly make notes in the book when something came up and easily, easily reference that. So I might, I might adopt that as well.

But one of the things, Eric, that you touched on in your two, your two techniques I think are kind of hybrids between how to get through as many books as you do as well as how to make it more actionable. So whether it's digging in a little bit more on those or whether you've got some other tips, I'll tell you.

For me, one of the biggest challenges is reading something and then formulating a plan to actually put it into action, follow through and then figure out what the results are on the back end. So what do you do other than potentially those two things to make everything that you're reading actionable and applicable in your day to day life.

Eric Cook: 00:49:45

I wish I could say that I was doing that and I'm not.

And that's one of the reasons why I think I wanted to get the Kindle because I listen to the audiobook most of the time, I'm behind the bars on my bicycle, touring along the roads of Northern Michigan or out on the trails, and I hear things. Sometimes I'll stop and I'll leave myself a little voice memo on Telegram. It's one of the apps that we use to communicate within the team.

And I've got a private channel that's just memos to myself and I'll leave just an audio memo that then shows up in the team chat and it's there to follow up on. But I can see me for a book that I really get into.

Where I see some value is listening to it first, maybe at 12 or 15 speed, going into the Kindle and then browsing it and picking out the things that I think really mattered, because I'll be able to draw attention to those and recognize them faster and use the highlighting feature in the. And to be able to then get the notes.

And this is where I'm really looking forward to some of Allison's insights as to how you can take those notes and make them actionable.

And then I think getting into an AI, whether it's a chat, GPT or a pie, and giving it those things and say, out of this book, this is what I took away. Help me come up with, use it as a coach to say, help me come up with an actionable plan of attack based off of the author, based off the book.

Let's face it, the models are trained on all of these, whether we like to acknowledge it or not, and use that to help me come up with a game plan.

But go through the content probably at least two, maybe even three times on my own before I lean against any sort of assisted technology to help me better digest it.

Human in the loop at the beginning and at the end, with maybe the tech, the robot, the AI in the middle, to help me refine and really kind of formulate my thoughts. That's the plan, at least.

And throughout this journey together, we're going to find out whether that works or not, because I'm going to talk about it and it's probably going to change and manipulate, you know, but that, that's my plan right now.

Fred Cadena: 00:51:58

I like the plan, Jack. Allison, what are your thoughts?

Allison Netzer: 00:52:04

Jack?

Jack Hubbard: 00:52:05

Well, as I mentioned, I'm not. I hate reading, let's just put it like that. But I had to start reading because it benefited my clients. So I read from the inside out. I try to take.

And I think, okay, if I'm reading a book and I have this unique ability and it's Just God given. If I'm reading a book, I'll say that Allison could use that. Eric could use that thing. Fred would love this.

And so as I'm reading it, I make notes, not just about what's going on in the book, but I'll come back and I'll say, send this idea to Fred. And so that's, for me, one of the reasons why I like physical books, because I can make notes.

I know you can do it on technology and all that, but that's one of the reasons why I like it. So I always am trying to think of my clients, certainly for knowledge. I think that's important as well.

The other thing, selfishly, is when I read a book, I think, okay, or someone recommends a book. Alison recommended a book just before we started taping.

And so I'm going to follow up and I'm going to reach out to the author and I'm going to see if I can have them on my podcast. When I read a book or a book is recommended to me, I'll look at it and I'll say, is this something that my audience can benefit from?

So then I'll say, well, let me read the book. Let me make sure. And then I'll reach out to the author and say, look, I just read your book. I would love to have you on my show.

I'm at our spring training headquarters. We're in the middle of building a house, and behind me you see a few books.

And so the other thing for me is if somebody calls me at a bank or call me today and say, hey, what is your thought on X? And so I'll say, well, I have a book. I don't know the exact answer, but I've got a book written by.

Let me go find it for you, and I'll get back to you and I'll try to help you with that idea. So to me, it's always about the other. And knowledge is great as long as you can actively pass that knowledge on to somebody else.

Eric Cook: 00:54:22

Love it.

Allison Netzer: 00:54:24

I agree. I completely agree. And I think is, you know, whether it's clients or if it's teams that you're leading or friends that you have being able to.

Because I do the same thing, Jack, regardless of how I'm reading, which is if it's a book or a thought in a book, right. You're essentially. It's almost. You're building a content management system or about the book to use for someone else.

James Robert Lay is fantastic about that.

He'll send me a book or an article or something that, you know, when someone says, you know, I thought of you when I read this, just recognizing and, you know, remembering someone else, especially as we're all sort of dispersed around the country and the world, it's amazing. It's amazing for relationship building, it's amazing for selling, it's amazing for building, building teams. So I agree with you.

I think books could be the new, the new account based marketing. So but as far as getting something out of a book one, I think you have to give yourself a little bit of grace. Right.

Part of just being able to intentionally sit with anything, book, whatever, helps us sort of fight the attention deficit disorder that we all struggle with. So just by sitting and focusing and listening or reading something is an accomplishment and is already helping you think better and lead better.

So I think we have to be light with ourselves on that. I'm also a really big fan of Tiago Forte's practice of writing, or in Eric's case, using AI to create a simple book summary.

Right after you finish the book, just very quickly in whatever method you want. You know, I mentioned Readwise, Readwise creates a folder within Evernote or any kind of note taking app you have.

So there's actually a live folder that constantly is updated with all the highlights that I make. So if I need content or guidance on a topic, Tiago Forte calls it your second brain. I can just search for something like conflict resolution.

The book summary comes up and it brings it all back in my brain. Right. I'm like, oh, yeah, I remember that now. I can. Yeah. And then it just sort of comes back to life. Right. Because the, the seed is still there.

So it goes back to what I mentioned before.

Eric Cook: 00:56:55

Right.

Allison Netzer: 00:56:55

We spend so much time consuming content, we don't really demand an ROI from ourselves. It's really silly not to.

And it's one of the easiest things to do if you spend six hours reading a book, 20 minutes, creating a summary so that you can solidify it in your head is a small price to pay.

Eric Cook: 00:57:14

I think that's a great idea.

Jack Hubbard: 00:57:16

Love it.

Fred Cadena: 00:57:17

Yeah, I love that. I think those are all phenomenal. Well, I really think that I hope the audience has taken away from this an idea of what to expect.

We're going to have in all of the episodes coming up, lively discussion centered around one book. We're each going to take turns playing host and guiding the discussion with the other three people weighing in, I hope.

And I think obviously there was already a little bit of foreshadowing on this, but we'll actually have the author with us on episode number one, and she'll be leading the discussion.

Eric Cook: 00:57:55

Who could that be? Who could that be?

Fred Cadena: 00:57:57

Who could that be?

Allison Netzer: 00:57:58

Wait a minute. I don't think I agreed to lead it. Did I lead. Agreed to lead the discussion?

Eric Cook: 00:58:02

Yeah, Sounds good right here. I saw your statement. Yeah, we're good.

Fred Cadena: 00:58:08

But I do hope that we'll be able to get some other authors on some of the other episodes and in some cases, at just be the four of us, you know, sharing our takeaways and how we think this could be applicable. I also think that there'll be some fun things, some fun surprises, and we definitely welcome our audience participation.

Please send any questions, any feedback, any book suggestions to us right now. Probably the best place to do that is to reach out to one of us individually, or better yet, make it social.

Come to our page on LinkedIn and make a post and say, hey, love the first episode. Why don't you guys try doing this?

Or, hey, if you guys have your own ideas on how to read and make it actionable or your favorite books, come to the LinkedIn page. Share those. We'd love to see those shared. But without further ado, Allison, give us a sneak peek at what we'll be covering in our first episode.

Our first book episode.

Allison Netzer: 00:59:08

Book episode. Book episode. So we chose Think Think like a brand, not a bank. So I can. I can add to my millions in publishing royalties from the book.

Fred Cadena: 00:59:21

Stack that cash up. We're recording it.

Eric Cook: 00:59:24

I cannot.

Fred Cadena: 00:59:25

In Ibiza, right? We're all flying to Ibiza. Private.

Eric Cook: 00:59:29

Yeah.

Allison Netzer: 00:59:29

It's a fortune.

Fred Cadena: 00:59:31

Yeah.

Allison Netzer: 00:59:31

Yes. If you want to make a lot of money and don't write books unless you're Daniel Steelers. So, yeah, we took a very official poll.

That's a book folks would like to start with. But we're not going to just summarize it. We're going to go behind the scenes a little bit. I thought that could be fun.

Talk about some of the content that didn't make it in as well as answer the big questions. I think on how to apply brand thinking in our day to day. That's an area that I wish we would have actually covered more.

If we could go back and do it again. And we'll have Tom Brady to join us for a roast of the author. No, I'm just kidding. But really get behind the scenes. And I get a lot of questions.

And Jack could weigh in on this too. But, like, how did you come up with the idea for the book? How do you write a book? You know, in Eric, going to one of your favorite books with Anne.

So we'll just kind of get into some different types of topics and get pretty deep into the book. So I'm looking forward to it.

Fred Cadena: 01:00:29

Fantastic. Yeah, I can't wait. I'm excited, and I'm excited for that, and I'm excited for this project overall.

Thank you again, Allison, Eric, Jack, for joining me for the kickoff episode. And thank you, each of our listeners, for coming along on this journey. We have so much in store for you. So check out our next episode.

Until then, we'll see you all later.

Eric Cook: 01:00:52

Bye, everybody.

Theme Song: 01:00:58

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